[Laszlo-dev] dguide: Color chapter

Lou Iorio lou at louiorio.com
Wed Nov 19 07:57:26 PST 2008


Are there restrictions on the values you use for %?

This works:

    <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="rgb(13%,10%,60%)"/>

but this:

     <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="rgb(13%,0%,60%)"/>

gives me this error:

Invalid value for bgcolor on LzSprite for view  [50.00 x 50.00]*[1.00  
0 0.00, 0 1.00 0.00, 0 0 1]: (void 0)

Ditto, it seems, for any value under 10%.

On Nov 19, 2008, at 11:25 AM, P T Withington wrote:

> That seems fine.
>
> You might want to throw in an rbg % example.   rgb(97%,89%,59%), for  
> example, just to cover all the possibilities.
>
> On 2008-11-19, at 10:05EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>
>> How about if I replace this section with this:
>>
>> To specify any color other than the 16 which are usable by name,  
>> use hex codes or rgb().
>>
>> <canvas height="150">
>> <simplelayout axis="y"/>
>> <text>using hex values</text>
>> <view>
>>   <simplelayout axis="x"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="#220099"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="#770011"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="#0022ff"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="#ff2200"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="#00ff22"/>
>> </view>
>> <text>same thing using rgb()</text>
>> <view>
>>   <simplelayout axis="x"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="rgb(34,0,153)"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="rgb(119,0,17)"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="rgb(0,34,255)"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="rgb(255,34,0)"/>
>>   <view width="50" height="50" bgcolor="rgb(0,255,34)"/>
>> </view>
>> </canvas>
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2008, at 9:52 AM, P T Withington wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, let's stop using these non-standard names.  Let's not  
>>> advertise them.  If you want a 'custom' color, you should specify  
>>> it with hex or rgb.  I am told that is what our designers do.
>>>
>>> I plan to remove colors.lzx, it is a pile of crap.  If you look at  
>>> it, you will see that it has only a few names, which are names  
>>> from the X11 standard, but the names are assigned to colors that  
>>> are _not_ what the X11 standard uses!  I really think this was  
>>> just pulled from thin air as a demo and does not deserve to be  
>>> enshrined in our doc or system.
>>>
>>> If we want to use named colors, we out to use the standard names  
>>> and values, not make up something random.
>>>
>>> Since I plan to fix lpp-7365 by deleting colors.lzx, you would do  
>>> me a favor if you deleted any examples based on it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2008-11-19, at 08:00EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since this example is about using nonstandard colors, using the  
>>>> standard colors
>>>> "yellow" and "aqua" does not make much sense.
>>>>
>>>> Should we just drop the entire section "Non-Standard Colors", or  
>>>> confine it to mentioning hex
>>>> values only? From my (perhaps naive) view, hex is the best way to  
>>>> specify color, standard or
>>>> otherwise. "iceblue" looks blue to me, but nothing like ice.
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 18, 2008, at 3:43 PM, P T Withington wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> See my comment on the bug you just filed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lets stop using the non-standard names from base/colors.lzx  
>>>>> altogether.  They are bogus.  For this example, how about just  
>>>>> using `yellow` and `aqua`.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry this is such a mess.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2008-11-18, at 14:31EST, J Crowley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hrmm, including base/colors.lzx doesn't get this to work in  
>>>>>> DHTML.  I filed a bug on this, but Andre said (in http://www.openlaszlo.org/pipermail/laszlo-dev/2008-November/018145.html 
>>>>>>  ) it could be fixed by including base/colors.lzx, but that  
>>>>>> doesn't seem to work...  Any ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P T Withington wrote:
>>>>>>> I appended our email as a comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2008-11-18, at 12:33EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see there is a JIRA for this and Josh owns it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.openlaszlo.org/jira/browse/LPP-7194
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 18, 2008, at 7:42 AM, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So in this broken example in the dguide (I think Josh is  
>>>>>>>>> working on it, but
>>>>>>>>> I want to make sure I understand):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <canvas debug="true">
>>>>>>>>> <simplelayout axis="x" spacing="10"/>
>>>>>>>>> <class name="box1" width="100" height="100" bgcolor="$ 
>>>>>>>>> {global['gold4']}"/>
>>>>>>>>> <class name="box2" width="100" height="100" bgcolor="$ 
>>>>>>>>> {iceblue1}"/>
>>>>>>>>> <box1 id="sun">
>>>>>>>>>  <text text="Sun"/>
>>>>>>>>> </box1>
>>>>>>>>> <box2 id="mystic">
>>>>>>>>>  <text fgcolor="0xFFFFFF" text="Mystic"/>
>>>>>>>>> </box2>
>>>>>>>>> </canvas>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You need to change the class tags:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <class name="box1" width="100" height="100" bgcolor="gold4"/>
>>>>>>>>> <class name="box2" width="100" height="100"  
>>>>>>>>> bgcolor="iceblue1"/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But this only works because the debugger is on, and that  
>>>>>>>>> includes the extra colors.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you turn the debugger off, the example displays the wrong  
>>>>>>>>> colors. You then need
>>>>>>>>> to add this:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <include href="base/colors.lzx"/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for the example to work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't see a JIRA for this. If I'm correct, I'll file a  
>>>>>>>>> JIRA and fix the example and
>>>>>>>>> the paragraph that introduces it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 10:11 AM, P T Withington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Probably so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Amusingly, for your little example that we worked on, since  
>>>>>>>>>> it includes a slider, you get all those colors.  I think if  
>>>>>>>>>> you include _any_ component, you get all the extra colors,  
>>>>>>>>>> but if you just try to use one of those extra colors on a  
>>>>>>>>>> plain view, you will lose (unless you happen to be in debug  
>>>>>>>>>> mode, in which case the debugger will have included them  
>>>>>>>>>> for you).  Messy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2008-11-16, at 07:05EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 15, 2008, at 6:52 PM, P T Withington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you load base/colors.lzx, it defines a whole bunch of  
>>>>>>>>>>>> colors (adds them to lz.colors).  Once that is loaded,  
>>>>>>>>>>>> you can, in fact, specify colors using those names.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ah, thanks, I didn't know that. Perhaps I should add that  
>>>>>>>>>>> to the dguide?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> André has pointed out that when you turn debugging on in  
>>>>>>>>>>>> swf8 or 9, the debugger gets loaded into your app, and it  
>>>>>>>>>>>> happens to load these extra colors.  So, by accident, you  
>>>>>>>>>>>> can use these colors in debug mode in swf8/9 (this is one  
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the many problems with running the debugger in the  
>>>>>>>>>>>> app, which is why I did not do it that way for dhtml, and  
>>>>>>>>>>>> why we have the 'console remote debug' option for  
>>>>>>>>>>>> swf8/9.  If you run the demo app in either dhtml or with  
>>>>>>>>>>>> the console debugger, you will see only the standard CSS  
>>>>>>>>>>>> color names.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The upshot is, if you want a demo that uses these  
>>>>>>>>>>>> extended color names, you need to make your demo include  
>>>>>>>>>>>> the base/colors.lzx file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the names of the colors in that file, I believe  
>>>>>>>>>>>> they are psuedo-standard, they might be from emacs, who  
>>>>>>>>>>>> knows.  I did not create that file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2008-11-15, at 04:48EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I concede to your technical prowess. But I still contend  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that what I was looking for here is the hex value.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't use "gray20" to specify a color in lzx, right?  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a bit leery of "psuedo-standards".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, why is there no red20, green20 or blue20?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not suggesting that you change anything, and I'm not  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to be difficult, I'm just curious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 14, 2008, at 7:33 PM, P T Withington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uh, because 20% gray has a technical meaning:  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rgb(256*(1-20/100),256*(1-20/100),256*(1-20/100)) or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lab(1-20/100,0,0), or hsb(0,0,20), or #333333, etc.,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but it much shorter to think/say when you want a gray  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a certain brightness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2008-11-14, at 18:06EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, but what do I care what someone chose to define  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as 20% gray? What does that even mean?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20% gray, and 80% what else? Any color where the r, g,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and b values are the same is gray. Why pick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an integer percent and name it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, I'm old; I still think in hex. (And, I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still call it 'grey'.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 14, 2008, at 6:49 PM, P T Withington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, as I said in my TODO, there needs to be a way,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a type like color, for you to say what your  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preferred presentation is.  Like maybe you should be  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to say something like 'color(rgb)' or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'color(#)' or 'color(token,#)' or something...  We  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could get really carried away!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure gray20 is '20% gray' and a psuedo- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard color name.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2008-11-14, at 17:38EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also noticed several "gray" colors showing up.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cute, but I'm not sure I like it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gray 20, for example, seems completely arbitrary.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For me, I really want to see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hex values. But then, I'm old.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 14, 2008, at 6:31 PM, P T Withington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'data' is historical, because that was the original  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application for setting/getting string versions of  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a value, but now we see there are more general  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons to do that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't it cute how 0 becomes 'black' and 0xffffff  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> becomes 'white'?  If you are very careful, you can  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set the slider to some other named colors...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gee, it would be fun to have a 'digital' slider  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that only let you pick named colors.  Hm...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2008-11-14, at 17:10EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like it mucho. The example works just as I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a purely subjective point of view, I like  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'present' and 'accept'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "Data" part seems extraneous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 14, 2008, at 5:43 PM, P T Withington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My fixes are in.  Update, rebuild and try this  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and see if you like it:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <canvas>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <simplelayout spacing="5"/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <view id="swatch" width="300" height="100"  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bgcolor="${color.value}" />
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <view id="sliders">
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <simplelayout />
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <slider id="color" width="300" value="0"  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minvalue="0" maxvalue="0xffffff" type="color" />
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <text text="${color.updateData()}" />
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> </view>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> </canvas>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `updateData` is probably not the most mnemonic  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name for how to get a string representation of  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the slider's value according to the type (in this  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case 'color').  The inverse is called  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `applyData`, it takes a string representation and  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tries to parse it according to the type.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `presentValueAsString` / `acceptValueFromString`  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem too ponderous.  Perhaps simply `present` and  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `accept`?  I'd appreciate your input.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2008-11-14, at 09:42EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2008, at 1:17 PM, P T Withington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically, using '0x000000' in CSS was a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kludge, non-standard, and probably should have  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been documented as such.  It will cause a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deprecation warning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any of the other 3 methods are standard,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acceptable, and work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be fine with me if we just said that  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you specified colors the same as the CSS  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can specify your color as a numeric value  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, the result of a computation, it doesn't  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be expressed as a hex constant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll add this to the chapter. I'd like to  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> include a simple example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <canvas>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <simplelayout spacing="5"/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <view id="swatch" width="300" height="100"  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bgcolor="${color.value}" />
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <view id="sliders">
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <simplelayout />
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <slider id="color" width="300" value="0"  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minvalue="0" maxvalue="16777215"/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <text text="${color.value}" />
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> </view>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> </canvas>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this worth including? My intent for the last  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <text> tag was to print the hex equivalent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the slider value, but I can't figure out how  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do that. I tried:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <text text="${color.value.toString(16)}" />
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but that doesn't work. Any ideas? Better example?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2008-11-13, at 08:49EST, Lou Iorio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The text preceding Example 20.3. Coloring text  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using CSS seems to completely contradict what  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the example shows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The text says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenLaszlo enables coloring in four ways:  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0x000000, #000000, rgb(0,0,0), and "black".  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For now, the best reason to prefer to use the  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hex style 0x000000 is that it always works,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether the color is assigned explicitly  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within the view, or by stylesheet. Color  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assignment by stylesheet fails by name, #hex,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or rgb(). Explicit color assignment by rgb()  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fails unless the RGB values are all numerals  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- that is, rgb(0,0,0) produces black, but  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rgb(FF,FF,FF), which should produce white,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> comes back at compile time as an invalid color.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Coloring of text with fgcolor="foo" is enabled  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the same fashions, but with the same  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limitations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CSS spits out an error if you use 0x000000.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How about:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OpenLaszlo enables coloring in four ways:  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0x000000, #000000, rgb(0,0,0), and "black".  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Using the format 0x000000 only works for  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explicit assignment; it does not work in CSS.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Color assignment using rgb() must be specified  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with decimal values from 0 - 255.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Coloring of text with fgcolor="foo" is enabled  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the same fashions, but with the same  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limitations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, the title of the example,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Coloring text using CSS", might be better if  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed to "Applying color explictly and with  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CSS" since it shows coloring views as well as  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you agree (or have a better idea), I'll  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make the changes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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